This may be a stupid question as FireFly has no connection to PB but you are "In the know". Even if you know you most likely you wont tell anyway but here goes:
Is Pb making a 64bit version of PowerBasic? At some point it has to I'd guess
Doug
It seems to be a touchy subject. There was a 3 or 4 page discussion about it last week on the PB forums but I think the thread got deleted by the company. I imagine there will be a 64 bit version however I wouldn't waste your breathe asking about it or any other new feature time frames in the PB forums because PB does not discuss what they are working on due to their "no vaporware" policy.
Paul,
Thank you, that's about what I thought and why I didn't ask on the PB forum.
Maybe in a couple years. Look at the bright side, It'll keep you busy with FFx64. I'll be a customer for sure!!
Doug
I noticed my participation there was not to be found the day after. But at least they (Mr. Russel?!) confirmed that it is in the making as I recall interpreting a early message from him.
Been in the making and around the corner for around 10 years now, I guess those extra 32bits are harder to work with than expected. Going to need 128bit by the time it is ready and many things are going Web and WinMobile. Pretty much .NET or nothing on WinMobile...if they'd grab that market they'd make a killing. There are straight C++ apps there too, so you'd think it would be easy to get something else.
I just looked and found out that PureBasic can compile to x64.... while I haven't used PureBasic in a very long time its a option if you really need a 64bit app. Makes you wonder how long its gonna take PB to come out with theirs.
Don't get me wrong...PB knows what they are doing I'm sure (I think) and when it does come out there will be no comparison between the two. Pb will blow it away as always.
Problem is I have a customer that wants a 64bit app now. What to do? Its ether .net (VS 2008) or PureBasic or they will find someone else to write the app.
Doug
Few years ago, I decided I had to migrate out of VB6 and so was looking around for a new language to adopt. VB.NET was a natural step, or so Microsoft tought. So I bought VB 2002 and VB2003 but I never get to use DotNET. Did not like them. Then I found out about the "shipping your source code with your exe" truth and the need for (expensive?) obfuscators that needed to be upgraded for new releases of VS everytime.
I tested REALbasic and even get a free license from them in 2004 or 2005 when they offered it no question asked to VB6 refugees. I like the fact that I can write once and compile many - Windows, mac and Linux. But... it did not have a toolbar for windows - their reason was windows does not have a toolbar control. I know that is not true so I went away.
Then I found PowerBASIC and PureBasic. For some reason that I could not explain, I was not impressed by PureBasic at that time. At the same time, I was having difficulty understanding PowerBASIC programming. Guess I was very accustomed to VB6 ways.
It was only after I found FireFly that I adopted PowerBASIC and thought that was it. I bought both and started creating the GUIs for my software with the plan of eventually putting in all the codes from scratch.
Then I realized how the staff at PowerBASIC were not prepared to move to Win x64. The impression I got was they thought the x64 market is not there and they seem to vigourously fight this x64 idea for now. I did not like what I saw in their forum. Now, it appears no one "dare" to bring up the idea of PowerBASIC x64.
Contrast to this, PureBasic has now not only went Win x64 but also mac x86, mac PowerPC and Linux x86 and x64. Now this is real good write once compile many. This is the answer to a number of my customers and lost sales who have asked:
a) I just bought a new computer with Win7 x64. Do you have a 64-bit version?
b) Can your software run on the mac?
c) Can your software run on Linux?
16-bit software lasted approx 15 years from 1980 until 1995 when Win95 was released. 32-bit software have been around 15 years now. How long more? x64 Windows is no longer a test like few years ago only for the AMD chip. It is now a real product sold and bought on the shelves!
I see in the IT forums over here, people are selling DDR3 1GB RAM modules like crazy. They are selling because they are upgrading to more RAM. Most motherboards come with max 4 RAM slots. 4 X 2GB will give them 8GB RAM. And this has to be they are using Win7 x64. This is the trend here and I cannot ignore the fact.
So last month, Dec 2010, I finally bought PureBASIC and ProGUI Gold. I also bought NSBasic App Studio because I have also been frequently asked:
d) Do you have apps that run on Apple iPhone?
Heck! Why not? Since I will also need a mac anyway (for PureBasic), why not also use it also to test Iphone apps. I am considering the mac Mini because I can connect it via HDMI to my LCD TV.
Last month too, I bought two iPhone 4 for my kids (they are loving it). For myself, I will be getting an Andriod phone. Still deciding between HTC Desire HD and Samsung Galaxy S. And my wife, she wants a Window 7 phone.
And NS Basic App Studio also allows me to write once compile many (though not yet for Win7 phone).
Interesting, PureBASIC looks like what PowerBASIC could be without Bob holding it back. I wonder how well a Linux app would run on Android since it is Linux. I plan on getting one sometime around March when next models are out. So, how is the Designer in it? On a Scale of PB Forms(1) to FireFly(10). Does it need replaced with something like FireFly or is it useable?
ProGUI looks interesting too. Very close to the Prof UIS stuff WYSIWYG Web Builder uses...hopefully it is better since UIS is very limited and ole Pablo over there gets frustrated easily when people report bugs he can't fix that is caused by it. Looks like a new version is due out too so you can get it cheaper now...I wonder if it will have the Ribbon Bars and other things UIS has...it would be a very good buy. Looks like it should work with PB too since DLL based.
Quote from: Roger Garstang on January 12, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
I wonder how well a Linux app would run on Android since it is Linux.
My (admittedly limited) understanding is that the vast majority of Android apps use the Dalvik VM, which is very similar to Java, but there's underlying architectural differences, it doesn't use Java bytecode and isn't compatible with the Java SE platform (so no use of AWT, Swing, etc.). So it's Java-like development, but it's not standard Java per se.
There is an NDK available for native development that targets the ARM processor which can be used for C/C++, enables you to link against the standard C library and so on (and that's the part where Linux compatibility would come in). However, it's really intended to be used for more low-level code, such as software codecs, or to leverage legacy code that's been written in C/C++; my understanding is that you don't have any direct access to the Android framework, so I don't think the NDK is anything you'd really want to use to create typical end-user applications. For that, you'd want to use the standard Android SDK.
So bottom line, for PowerBasic to support Android, they'd have to emit bytecode for the Dalvik VM and/or target the ARM family of processors, be able to call into the standard Android libraries and the Linux kernel that is the foundation for the platform.
It would be a decidedly non-trivial exercise, and I'm not sure what it would buy them. It'd be a similar issue with asking for PowerBasic to target the .NET platform (e.g.: Windows Phone). It would require a significant investment in resources, and they would be competing againt established toolchains that are completely free. In the Windows Phone space, that's C# or VB using Visual Studio 2010 Express, XNA, Silverlight, etc. and with Android that's Java with the Android SDK, ADT, Eclipse as the IDE and so on.
I am still very new to PureBasic still poking around but I will try to answer.
Quote from: Roger Garstang on January 12, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
I wonder how well a Linux app would run on Android since it is Linux.
I think it will not run in Andriod because underneath the codes, it interface with the Linux platform.
Quote from: Roger Garstang on January 12, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
So, how is the Designer in it? On a Scale of PB Forms(1) to FireFly(10). Does it need replaced with something like FireFly or is it useable?
I would say it is something like PowerBASIC Form except that it creates windows and not dialogs. The Visual Designer generate PureBasic codes as an include file, seprate from the main program file. It does not have the feature to write events code.
Quote from: Roger Garstang on January 12, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
ProGUI looks interesting too. Very close to the Prof UIS stuff WYSIWYG Web Builder uses...hopefully it is better since UIS is very limited and ole Pablo over there gets frustrated easily when people report bugs he can't fix that is caused by it. Looks like a new version is due out too so you can get it cheaper now...I wonder if it will have the Ribbon Bars and other things UIS has...it would be a very good buy. Looks like it should work with PB too since DLL based.
ProGUI is written by a very young guy who display a lot of commitment. I am impressed after reading this thread:
http://forums.purebasic.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36686&sid=11d4e5e65351990f9d48afcd43f27d62
I should support young startup like him.
There is no ribbon bar but with 1.17 (9Jan2011), there is MS Office 2007 menu style.
I believe the reason that Powerbasic hasn't jumped on the 64 bit bandwagon is because there really isn't any pressing need for it. There are extremely few applications that need it. For most applications it is just a waste of bits. On my desktop I am still 32 bit and I do not have any reason to move to 64 bit. On my work desktop where a typical day for me has me running Oracle Database Server, Websphere, Eclipse, Primavera P6, Tomcat, and various MS tools, I still do not reach the 3.5 gig of memory that I have on my workstation and none of my applications need more then 2 gig.
On a server where you want the database to handle a high load, that isn't true and all of our severs are 64 bit. They also run 32 bit applications just fine. On my desktop I just don't have the need for it.
I do understand where it's needed and if I had it on my work desktop I would use the additional memory to run VM's to isolate some of the programs that I use. On my home desktop I just haven't had the need for it. In the 30+ years that I have been developing I also have not had the need to create an application that needs 64 bits.
I would be interesting in hearing what kinds of applications requires 64 bits and that people want to write in FireFly/BP.
Quote from: Cho Sing Kum on January 06, 2011, 03:24:04 AMLast month too, I bought two iPhone 4 for my kids (they are loving it). For myself, I will be getting an Andriod phone. Still deciding between HTC Desire HD and Samsung Galaxy S. And my wife, she wants a Window 7 phone.
Kum, did you ever decide which Android phone to get ???
Programs that need gobs of memory will of course benefit from X64.
At work I use SolidWorks, 3D Studio, Cosmos, etc. I'm currently using XP Pro and have frequent problems with memory shortage. I'm in line for a new x64 workstation and can't wait.
I can't see anything I will be writing in FF needing much memory.
Quote from: Jim Dunn on March 06, 2011, 01:16:05 PM
Quote from: Cho Sing Kum on January 06, 2011, 03:24:04 AMLast month too, I bought two iPhone 4 for my kids (they are loving it). For myself, I will be getting an Andriod phone. Still deciding between HTC Desire HD and Samsung Galaxy S. And my wife, she wants a Window 7 phone.
Kum, did you ever decide which Android phone to get ???
Yes, I bought the HTC Desire HD for the bigger 4.3" screen. Love it. The only negative is the battery run out quite fast so I search the internet for tips to conserve, like tricks to conditioning the battery, switch off Wifi (phone will keep scanning if not connected), switch off data sync and switch on USB debugging.
Quote from: Cho Sing Kum on March 06, 2011, 01:39:15 PMYes, I bought the HTC Desire HD for the bigger 4.3" screen. Love it. The only negative is the battery run out quite fast so I search the internet for tips to conserve, like tricks to conditioning the battery, switch off Wifi (phone will keep scanning if not connected), switch off data sync and switch on USB debugging.
I got the T-Mobile MyTouch, same problem, needs charging before the end of the day. I've found JuiceDefender and Advanced-Task-Killer-(Froyo) help a lot, but it's disappointing how fast it loses battery.
Do the iPhone's need charging every night?
I have a Droid X and since the Froyo update I've been very happy with the battery life.
I do have to charge nightly but that seems to be par for a smart phone if you use it much. I use the X quite a bit and it lasts all day with no problem.
I get poor reception in my office at work because it's not near any windows. When I first got a Razr the battery would die by 2pm. I had the phone clipped to my belt and I discovered that if I simply moved if from my right side to my left side, the battery would then last all day. :o
Quote from: Cho Sing Kum on January 13, 2011, 11:23:47 AMI am still very new to PureBasic still poking around but I will try to answer.
Kum, I also wanted to ask if PureBasic was working well for you.
I tried it recently, on my Windows 7 box, but the PureBasic 32-bit Demo "Visual Designer" had problems. I would add a Tab Control, and then click the "+" to add a 2nd tab... and it would jump up to the top left corner of my screen and wouldn't let me move it back, would have to exit to get control.
So I tried to compile just with 1 tab, and got an error " Deprecated Function 'CreateGadgetList()' " which scared me.
I guess their VD hasn't caught up with their IDE... : (
Hi Jim,
"Do the iPhone's need charging every night?"
My kids are in their teens and still schooling so their usage may defer from the normal adult working. I bot the iPhones during their Dec school holidays and they were exploring a lot with the phones and also with apps store and games. The batteries ran down quite fast at that time. Now, its school time and I don't see them charging every night. Do note that the iPhone has a smaller 3.5" screen.
I am a very small user of the phone, so now my HTC only need to be charged maybe 3 days.
Like Robert, I use a Motorola Razr (V3i) for many years. It would go a few days with each charge. When I was on holiday in HK last June, the juice ran out in half a day. On the 3rd day I checked - it kept looking for a connection and that ran down the battery.
So to conserve battery on present smartphones, will need to turn off Wifi, bluetooth, data sync, etc. when not needed.
I have two Android phones at present - an HTC Desire (3.7" screen) and a Samsung Galaxy Tab.
The HTC Desire usually makes 2 to 3 days with mobile UMTS connection on only. If I leave WiFi constantly on it goes down to about 36 hours. So I switch WiFi of when I leave the house.
The Samsung Tablet needs charging every 3 to 4 days with heavy use, with lighter use up to a week. During the first couple of days of course I needed to recharge every two days because of the extreme use (Screen on for several hours). I leave WiFi and mobile connection on all the time. The tablet automatically switches between the two connections, which means it constantly scans for WiFi.
I noticed also that the Desire's processor constantly runs at higher speeds even if nothing is done since I updatet to FroYo. Processor speed seldem goes unter 500 Mhz. With Eclair it went down to below 200 Mhz.
The Samsung tablet (also FroYo) goes down to 100 Mhz when idle.
Hi Jim,
The VD that ships is end-of-life. It was written by Bericko and he no longer has the time. Fred is re-writing it to also work cross-platform native 32-bit and native 64-bit in PureBasic tradition.
http://forums.purebasic.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=35699&sid=e78bffd97217673caf178b9bf9c3cce1
I see recommendations for PureFORM:
http://forums.purebasic.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=23529&sid=e78bffd97217673caf178b9bf9c3cce1
http://forums.purebasic.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31679&sid=e78bffd97217673caf178b9bf9c3cce1
I have tried coding the GUI by hand. It is actually quite easy and is something like Dialog commands in PowerBASIC.
Edited to add:
I forgot about your Tab control example and adding tabs. You can see how it can be done manually from the Gadget.pb example.
Quote from: Cho Sing Kum on March 07, 2011, 03:25:57 AMI have tried coding the GUI by hand. It is actually quite easy and is something like Dialog commands in PowerBASIC. You can see how it can be done manually from the Gadget.pb example.
Ok, thx!!
EDIT: Wow, it's quite a bit different from PowerBASIC, but I see that if you buy once, you get lifetime updates free, and they have 32 and 64 bit compilers, and compilers for Windows, Linux, and MAC. I guess I need to figure out my priorities.