Not an immediate need, but the size and position lock on locked controls is not being honored by the arrow-key "nudging". Locked controls are also included in drag-selection of multiple controls. They won't move when you drag with the mouse, however, they will "nudge" with the rest of them. Just want to get it into your tracker.
David
David,
If I recall, the nudging with the arrow keys was intentional, but I am not sure if it was intentional for multiple selected items.
Gary
In Visual Studio 2010 (Beta 2), when a control is locked, you can not move it via the mouse or the keyboard. Likewise, you can not move it when it is part of a selected group.
Would you like FF3 to mirror the way VS2010 works?
Gary,
Of course nudging would be by design and it's even more powerful and useful with selected groups. I was saying that Locked controls should not be moved by nudging.
Paul,
I vote for locked meaning can't-move. Of course, if some people find the current way useful, it could be user selectable setting?
If by nudging means:
1) the Ctrl-ArrowKeys to move the position and
2) the Shift-ArrowKeys to change the size
then I do understand that ONLY when I press the Ctrl or Shift keys combination that I will affect the size/position of locked controls, otherwise they will not be affected. In other words, I must INTENTIONALLY do it to override the locked state.
If this is the case, then I think I do not understand the issue. The feature allow changing multiple or individual control/s position and/or size of locked controls without having to individually unlock, change and then lock back. And this only when done intentionally and knowingly.
Cho,
I appreciate your insights. The issue would be that nudging (your definition was accurate) is not the method used to move locked controls. It's the method used to position a control with accuracy. Using a mouse to move a control just one-pixel can be difficult. Although, when it's not obeying the locked setting, I can see how it might seem that moving and sizing with the arrow keys might be the designated way to move a locked control. It sounds like we can put you down for creating a preference setting.
Quote from: David Kenny on February 16, 2010, 03:02:15 AM
The issue would be that nudging (your definition was accurate) is not the method used to move locked controls. It's the method used to position a control with accuracy.
I would not agree that "nudging is not the method used to move locked controls". I have been using MS IDE for many years since the 1990s and this is how it has been. I have never be able to accidentally move locked controls by dragging them with the mouse.
As it is now, the use of Shift and Crtl already give it the "preference" or "user selectable". There is no need to put me down for creating a preference setting. Please do not jump to conclusion.
I would not suggest more load on Paul on something that is already there.
I think the way it is now - locking the mouse but being able to move locked controls with the keys - ist just perfect.
The problematic behavior was that sometimes you dobleclicked a control and you woul accidentally move it. Locking prevents this. Accidentally movig or resizing a control with keys I can hardly imagine.
And I find it great that you can move groups of controls at the same time too.
(Just my personal opinion of course...)
Rolf and Cho,
I could get used to it either way. It seemed pretty obvious to me that moving a locked control with the mouse after multi-selecting it was not what was supposed to happen. I noticed a similar behavior with key-adjustments. I did jump to a conclusion that this too was unintentional. I'll respect Paul's decision on how tho handle it.
Cho, by your post it seems that you like this 'feature'. I have no problem with that. Based on my belief that the behavior is unintentional and will be fixed - my only conclusion was that you would like to be able to keep it the way it is. If it is 'fixed', that would have to be a preference setting.
Best Regards,
David
Hi David,
I think Paul described a similar situation once like this:
"If you like it it's a feature, if not it is a bug!"
I personally love it the way it is.
Quote from: Rolf Brandt on February 16, 2010, 05:54:09 AM
I think the way it is now - locking the mouse but being able to move locked controls with the keys - ist just perfect.
And I find it great that you can move groups of controls at the same time too.
(Just my personal opinion of course...)
I agree..... I like it the way it is, but if there were changes made, then hopefully it can be user selectable.
Gary
Quote from: David Kenny on February 16, 2010, 11:41:38 AM
Rolf and Cho,
Cho, by your post it seems that you like this 'feature'. I have no problem with that. Based on my belief that the behavior is unintentional and will be fixed - my only conclusion was that you would like to be able to keep it the way it is. If it is 'fixed', that would have to be a preference setting.
It is not a matter of whether I like it or not. From what I see, it does not need to fixed. As it is now, locked controls cannot be moved or resized accidentally. Yet during a design or re-design ofthe GUI, locked controls can still be moved/resized to suit. All this, bearing in mind, is already there.
I hope you can stop yourself from making assumption or jumping to conclusion that I would this or I would that.
As it is now, it works perfectly and is consistent with what I have seen. This all I am saying.
I'm with Cho and Rolf on this one. Keep it the way it is.
QuoteIt is not a matter of whether I like it or not. From what I see, it does not need to fixed. As it is now, locked controls cannot be moved or resized accidentally. Yet during a design or re-design ofthe GUI, locked controls can still be moved/resized to suit. All this, bearing in mind, is already there.
I hope you can stop yourself from making assumption or jumping to conclusion that I would this or I would that.
Hey Cho, that sounded a bit harsh. I think David was not jumping to conclusions or making assumptions.
I think it does matter what we like or not. We all have our certain preferences. I for instance like FF because in many ways it behaves like Visual Studio 6, and here especiall VB6. I still like that version VS better than the newer versions. And certein features of FF3 are now even improving over VB6. So many things I like are influenced by that environment. Somebody who comes from a different background might have different preferences. David probably has his reasons.
For me personally the way the locking of controls as it is right now is perfect, because the danger of accidentally sizing or moving of control is banned.
Hi Rolf,
I agree with you I was harsh. Perhaps reply #5 was the trigger. Usually I do not post like this .
I live in a multi-religion, multi-racial, multi-cultural society. To keep the harmony, I have learned how and why not to in any way that when someone does not explicitly say so, not to impose that that someone want this or like this or that.
The forum is the same. We come from different programming environment.
The way the lock property is working is by design and by intention:
http://www.planetsquires.com/protect/forum/index.php?topic=2073.msg17122#msg17122
It is working perfectly, with no possibility that locked controls be accidentally moved or resized yet allow for this flexibility by intentionally pressing the Crtl or Shift keys.
Cho, in conversation proponents of "active listening" encourage us to reframe and restate what we hear others say. Is considered courteous. A sign that we are paying attention and understand what others are saying. And, if we restate something incorrectly reframing gives the other an easy way to clarify so that communication is improved. Unfortunately, this sometimes doesn't work as well in the context of typed message board replies, where no one likes having their statements "rewritten". -- tom
Thanks for your reply, Cho.
Thanks Cho,
I have to admit that I wasn't sure where you were coming from with your fervor. Your link seemed to validate my assertion that something wasn't working right with locked controls. Post from Paul:
QuoteIf a control is locked you will not be able to size or move it either by the mouse, the PropertyList, or by the keyboard shortcuts.
I read on and figured it out. Next post from Paul:
QuoteI was thinking about this and I think that I will remove the restriction that controls can not be moved/sized by keyboard keys if they are locked.
I knew what he said in the first quote and thought I knew what he said in the second. I just misread it. I can tell you are passionate about FF. I am right with you on that one. I meant no disrespect.
FF didn't behave as I expected it should and my expectations have changed with this new info. I was asking for the 'bug' to be fixed and a preference setting for those who like it this way. When I played with it again, I found that this way has it's merits. It really helped by knowing that it is indeed working as designed.
David
Hi David,
I apologise for being harsh. I too meant no disrespect.
Yes we are all here because we like FF and want to see it get better. I hope I know you better now after this. There is an eastern saying something like, "If we had not fought, we would not have got acquanted."
Cho
Wow, this got all blown up and I wasn't even involved...I feel left out now. For what it is worth I think the WYSIWYG Web Builder forums are worse, with PB a close 2nd. Great product, but I think the Dutch guys there hate Americans and they seem to write and speak fine, but in replies they act like there is a communication barrier and they take everything I say wrong. They delete posts and threads faster than PB Bob too. Ole Pablo over their takes things too personal with his app too and thinks it is bug free. Glad Paul is so open here to comments.
As for the controls I was confused on this at first and thought the original post was saying if some controls in a form were locked and others weren't and you drag selected them all and moved them that is was moving the locked ones...so, I tested and they were working fine (I could highlight all the controls and even click and drag on one that was locked in the group and it only moved and showed outlines for the controls unlocked). Then I realized he was moving by keys. Keys have always allowed moving and is how I usually do it to avoid unlocking manually when I want to move some...which is even more important now with more than one way to lock and not only having to globally unlock but unlock each control if I just need to bump it a couple pixels. I've never accidentally bumped a control by keys. It sounds like the issue is in the selection of controls. Since dragging the selection rectangle is square it will select controls you don't want to move, so just hold ctrl and click them to unselect them then do the nudging by keys.