Hi Everyone,
Yes, it sure is quiet on the PowerBasic sites these days. I think we can finally once and for all conclude that PB is not a worth while long term programming investment. If not for Gary Bean then I fear that the site would just be a ghost town.
I am curious as to what all you guys have been doing over the past two years. I have been all over the place in regards to programming. I took time to learn C# but it never stuck with me because around the same time I thought that maybe cross platform programming would be my preference. I then took a stab at C++ and was getting pretty good at it but after a while it seemed like my heart just wasn't into the "C" family of languages. I migrated back to FreeBasic and that is where I am now. I am developing tools for FB and that will be my desktop programming language. I am enhancing FireFly for FreeBasic, writing a grid control for FreeBasic, and writing a GUI library for FreeBasic. All my new FreeBasic tools will be free and open source. If enough of you want to move over to FreeBasic then maybe I could create a new programming forum to help all of us with the transition - just a thought. :)
However, for the past two months I have done a LOT of web programming. This was really my first time developing a large business website (for a friend) that included many technologies: HTML, CSS, JavaScript, AngularJS, Bootstrap, JQuery, dhtmlx library, MySQL, PHP and PayPal integration with IPN support. I can honestly say that it was the most fun that I have had programming in quite a long time. Hopefully the opportunity will arise to do more of this type of work/fun in the future.
Firefly for PowerBasic - basically there is not much to say on this topic. I can't invest into anymore large updates/upgrades at this time. I don't expect to ever see a 64 bit version of PowerBasic so eventually the PowerBasic user base will slowly dwindle away unfortunately. I have legacy applications that depend on PowerBasic and Firefly so I will have to maintain FireFly/PB for quite some time. I expect that many of you have many applications in FireFly/PB and will need support for quite some time to come.
Interesting path you took Paul, i also tried C sharp but i didnt like it either.
About the PowerBASIC website, let me tell you, it may look dead on the surface, but (at least for me) lately it has a lot of activity underneath.
I knew a little Java from a long time ago, and i tried it again but hated it (or re-hated it). However, Android uses Java and we were hired develop a compiler for Android and android applications. We currently have a working Android compiler (our property) that we are improving everyday and we also have the iOS foundations for another compiler with PowerBASIC syntax.
If you have made a lot of web programming, i humbly suggest you to take a look at BasictoPHP, it makes programming with web applications inmensely easier, specially with applications that require MySQL. I have created appliccations which include the following technologies: Javascript, MySQL, Ajax, PayPal, (and full IPN support), PayZA, Stripe (which i like more than paypal because funds go directly to your bank account instead of an 'electronic purse'), jQuery, HTML, CSS and few other technologies that adapt very well with BasictoPHP. The only problem is that once you get the hang of it you get paid less working by the hour, than working with raw code directly. :P
I understand you very well about the Firefly part, it is hard to do something that doesnt report any income these days. Should you release a Firefly for Freebasic, i will check it for sure! I have never tried Freebasic but just for getting a Firefly for it, would worth it. Now, if you want to do something with Android, How about a Firefly for Android? You could even use BasictoPHP to interface with it. :)
By the way, you were kind enough to give me a free Upgrade to Firefly, (I haven't forgotten!!), so, if you want i can give you a free license for BasictoPHP for Android. Just, wink or something. :P I made an appliccation that intergates an android application communicating with a PHP application via TCP/IP and everything works incredibly well, so, if you had fun programming web applications you might enjoy this a lot! What it does is allowing restaurant customers to make their orders from their phone, then the order go immediately to a big screen in the kitchen and another big screen to the waiters. Customer makes their order, confirms it and the order goes to the kitchen, when done, the cook confirms it as done and it goes to the waiters, deliver it to the table and confirms it as served... everything works smoothly and the android app looks awesome. :) It could hardly be more fun!
Nothing like working in what one likes. :)
Quote from: TechSupport on March 25, 2015, 12:13:23 PM
All my new FreeBasic tools will be free and open source
...
I can't invest into anymore large updates/upgrades (to FF) at this time.
Would you consider releasing your source for FF for others to modify for personal use? If you are not interested in letting it go completely, maybe to people who build and test new features and who also agree to submit source code to you for review and possible inclusion?
Quote from: David Kenny on March 25, 2015, 08:48:30 PMWould you consider releasing your source for FF for others to modify for personal use? If you are not interested in letting it go completely, maybe to people who build and test new features and who also agree to submit source code to you for review and possible inclusion?
I would be so happy about that! I would like to add a couple features to firefly and (try to) fix couple glitches that have haunted me for the past couple years. :)
Quote from: Elias Montoya on March 25, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
Should you release a Firefly for Freebasic, i will check it for sure! I have never tried Freebasic but just for getting a Firefly for it, would worth it.
I agree!!! I have looked briefly at FB, but have not done anything with it, but if FF was able to be used with it, big bonus!!!
Paul, I don't think you even have to open source it....I don't expect you to provide us with these tools for free...I would be happy to pay for your expertise!
Gary
Paul,
I did look into FreeBasic again when the new 64bit was announced but I found the deviation from the norm on 32 -> 64 datatypes turned me off. ( as you may have picked up on the forum). Also the lack of 64bit headers was a big PIA. Yes I do know some (all) are available now but time is not.
Will FreeBasic FF be cross platform 32/64?
I am quite content with bc9Basic and Windows. I've been the Linux route with FreeBasic, ubx, and more recently with UbxWx but Linux does little for me these days.
James
Hi Paul,
As you know, I am a strong supporter of PureBasic. It seems there's no limit to it's strengths.
Since you've been into web development....
SpiderBasic was just released...
(from the home page)
"SpiderBasic is new web client-side programming language based on established BASIC rules. Its main purpose is to allow development of very complex, windowed based web applications. It provides a large commandset to handle complex and reactive GUI, 2D games, and many more in a coherent manner. Every library and commands behave the same and have similar syntax for easier and faster learning. The full documentation can be found here.
SpiderBasic is a compiler which generates optimized JavaScript, which needs a modern browser to run (HTML5). As a compiler, it has strong typing and various checks that JavaScript doesn't provide, allowing robust code construction. SpiderBasic is not object oriented because we do believe that object oriented programs are very hard to maintain. Instead we provide flexible namespace support and many other features.
SpiderBasic is based on the PureBasic syntax, and is compatible to some degree with it. If you are already familiar with PureBasic, using SpiderBasic should be an easy task. It's even possible to create a program which runs on the web and on the desktop using the same source code."
A demo version is available on the web-site: http://www.spiderbasic.com/index.php
Stay well my friend,
--Bob
I am not fond of releasing FireFly/PB source code nor licensing it for private use. I am very open to still maintaining that version and even adding features that the community deems as important (except for things like Unicode support which would involve a complete rewrite of the guts of Firefly).
Maybe you can start a separate thread and FireFly users can comment on the features that they would like to have that are currently missing. I would be willing to devote time to add features that are not too complicated. I could review the ideas and then maybe have everyone vote for the top 3 or 4 ideas to be implemented?
Not sure if everyone realizes this or not but Jellyfish Editor and Firefly already exist for FreeBasic.
Hi James, a couple of days ago dkl released another test package with the full 64 bit api headers included. I have not yet converted Firefly to handle the new includes but I will very soon. Once that is done, Firefly/FB will be fully 32 and 64 bit compatible (that is, the programs generated by Firefly will be 32/64. Firefly/FB itself will remain 32 bit because it is written in PowerBasic).
Elias and Bob - thanks for the info on BasicToPHP and SpiderBasic. I have heard and read a bit on each. They both sound quite interesting :)
Quote from: TechSupport on March 26, 2015, 11:29:44 AM
I am not fond of releasing FireFly/PB source code nor licensing it for private use.
I was pretty sure that you felt that way in the past. With the info you gave about your FreeBasic tools being "free and open source", coupled with your statements that seem to indicate you don't think PB will come back, I had to ask. Being the optimist that I am, I will take this as an indication that you still have (at least a little) hope. :)
Paul,
Glad to see some activity from you. Also glad to see that I am not the only person around that does not like the various "C" dialects. I really find BASIC comfortable and logical.
I have moved from PowerBASIC to doing mostly XOJO development these days. I have built several major Web Apps. XOJO has some quirks but the community is large and the company is pretty active. Their latest release will compile iOS apps as well as desktop (Windows/OSX/Linux) and Web Server Apps on the same three platforms. The biggest downside is the price. To stay on the maintenance "bandwagon" is expensive if you use the full suite.
We never did finish our book. Maybe someday.
I am happy to see you get back to some joy of programming. Too bad about PowerBASIC.
I have a new day job (8 months now) and it has been great. I work for the University of Louisville Med School. I am working toward building a consolidated data warehouse of sorts and creating some little apps along the way. My boss connects me to some stakeholders and leaves me along to find them a solution. I work on campus two days per week and the other three at home.
So keep in touch by the forum here. I will try to keep an eye on the happenings.
Mark Strickland
Quote from: TechSupport on March 26, 2015, 11:30:46 AM
Not sure if everyone realizes this or not but Jellyfish Editor and Firefly already exist for FreeBasic.
Thanks Paul for the info....I didn't realize this. I assume that Jellyfish is the same as used for PB with maybe a different keyword file???
Thanks again,
Gary
Hi Gary - yes, pretty much. Just tweaked a few things here and there to make it FB compatible (keywords, compiler setup, etc)
Hi Mark! Great to hear from you again and I'm happy to hear that you're doing well and enjoying your University of Louisville Med School job!
:)
I am still studying, so time for programming has gone to ZERO. Final year!!! So its into the books !!!!
Yes, i think most of us now realized that we had to bury the best compiler with its maker. Sad, but so.
FB also looks like the best alternative, and with you working on FF for it, will probably see the biggest part of the forum moving with you.
You are the key to this entire thing.
You made Powerbasic accessible to many of us with so much ease and fun, and I can only hope you will do that with FB.
Most of us are waiting for that HALELUJA moment when you present a FIREFLY with all the current perks, toys, functions and tools for FB.
Then you will see how this site ignite again.
Quote from: TechSupport on March 26, 2015, 11:30:46 AM
Not sure if everyone realizes this or not but Jellyfish Editor and Firefly already exist for FreeBasic.
Thank you Paul, I was not aware that you released FireFly Visual Designer for FreeBasic version 1.71 the 10th of February, 2015.
I have made a few tests and so far I'm very happy with this new version of FireFly for FreeBasic.
I have a general question regarding FireFly Visual Designer for FreeBasic; it-is appropriate to use this forum for questions, suggestions, etc ... regarding FireFly for FreeBasic ?
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Hi Jean-Pierre, I have setup a new subforum for any customer that wants to explore the possibilities of FreeBASIC and FireFly.
:)
I also just uploaded the first test version of FireFly that produces 64-bit exe's.
I just noticed this thread, so I am running a little behind. Good to receive news from you, Paul!
Quote from: TechSupport on March 25, 2015, 12:13:23 PM
I am curious as to what all you guys have been doing over the past two years.
These days I spend most of my free time trading stocks. All the programming I have been doing the last 1.5 years was in function of that, writing tools for myself only. I am still using FireFly with PB. I just love FF too much to switch to anything else.
Reading that you are going to support a FF for FB is good news! That would be the only motivation for me to learn FB instead of PureBasic (which was my back-up plan for PowerBasic).
QuoteAll my new FreeBasic tools will be free and open source.
How great as this may sound, I encourage you to charge a (modest) fee, atleast for your flagship software (FF/FB). This helps to stay motivated and make it worth your while...
QuoteIf enough of you want to move over to FreeBasic then maybe I could create a new programming forum
That would be great!
Quoteso I will have to maintain FireFly/PB for quite some time.
Nothing but good news here! :)
As said. FF with PB is currently my only programming tool. As long as nothing is 'seriously broken' I will keep using it. And perhaps study or follow up on FB in the same time.
Glad you are having fun programming again, Paul!!
Kind regards
Quote from: Mark Strickland on March 26, 2015, 09:46:03 PM
We never did finish our book. Maybe someday.
Did you start to write a book about FireFly? it is a very good idea indeed; a good title could be
"Writing professional software for Windows with FireFly".
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Well it was going to be a programming book about the "good old days" of programming when life was simpler. Simpler like using PowerBASIC and not Dot Net style programming with 7,000 new classes.
MacGyver would use PowerBASIC but not Dot Net. ;)
Quote from: Mark Strickland on April 01, 2015, 02:04:25 PM
MacGyver would use PowerBASIC but not Dot Net. ;)
Don't think so. He would use a piece of barb wire and some chewing gum .... ;D
Probably true but maybe coupled with his rewired Texas Instruments scientific calculator that is powered by a Z-80 8-bit chip.
I want to say that while I have stayed away from PowerBASIC (and never seriously getting started due to lack of 64-bit compile), I do still visit this forum regularly. I read some while back that FreeBASIC is 64-bit compile capable although at that time still not perfect.
I have gone round the circle - RealBasic/RealStudio, PowerBASIC, PureBasic, Qt, C, C++, Objective-C, .NET (which I still hate), HTML/PHP/JavaScript/CSS/Jason and then Xojo(a.k.a RealStudio) - and I am still back with VB6. I have paid for the licenses for Realbasic/Xojo, PureBasic, PowerBASIC and have a BizSpark MSDN account.
PowerBASIC is dead.
Qt, C and C++ and Objective-C are too steep for me to learn.
PureBasic should be easy to learn but still have to go into OS API to do some or rather a fair bit of things. The result is that cross-platform (Win/OSX/Linux) advantage is lost.
Xojo is still not a finished product although I am very comfortable with it. Feel like VB6 in a way. I would have migrated to this if not for the lack or 64-bit compile which they have promised for years and I have waited for years. This year perhaps, fingers crossed. It is always playing catch up to new OS changes compounded by the very slooowwww development on their part. If not for the need to access MySQL on a server, I would not have upgraded to Desktop with Database Access 2 months ago. The advantage is cross-platform. All this will be gone when they start using the .NET library. They have decided.
.NET - I hate it. Still sluggish. Ship your source codes with the exe.
HTML/PHP/JavaScript/CSS/Jason - Exciting time spent with it. But still ship your source code with your product. The plus is can be used to write Windows Store Apps. The other use is Web Apps.
Swift - Ah, this new baby. I have not taken this up that seriously. Why? It is only for OS X and iOS. But if I find a development platform that can used for Windows Desktop and modern GUI, then Swift has to be it for the Mac side.
I mentioned Windows Desktop and modern GUI above. By modern GUI, it really means Metro GUI. But Metro GUI need not necessarily be for ARMs. Gone are WinRT tablets. Even the new Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3 are Intel only and the full real Wintel versions of Win 8.1 (soon to be Win 10). This means Desktop.
On a notebook and desktop, Win 10 will auto boot into the desktop. The desktop that we all know since Win95? Metro apps will run in a window on the desktop! It will not switch to the Metro, unless you prefer. Which brings me to the ideal of this product - DotNetBar for Windows Forms.
http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar/
This product is actually a library of controls for Windows Forms. Within this library is a very interesting subnet of controls called Metro Style User Interface Controls for Windows Forms. This is desktop (Windows Froms) not Metro. The result is modern UI on the desktop.
http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar/metro-ui-controls.aspx
We cannot run away from modern UI. It is here to stay. Good old common controls will looked aged in the next few years, if not already looking aged now.
This bring me to the question. Is it possible to bring modern UI to FreeBasic? Probably need to write the controls or use those from the WinAPI and owner draw them or somehow. The idea is to do this in FireFly for FreeBASIC (FF-FB). I know the problem of charging for FF-FB when the mother compiler is free. But when you get modern UI in addition to the existing common controls on the desktop, then I think is a very different story.
I am happy to pay for it.
Then it will be FreeBASIC for Windows (Windows phones does not matter) and Swift for OS X and iOS.
Well, Interesting Topic.
It's been years since I made a post anywhere - but to say that PowerBasic is Dead? It's made me a 6 Figure Living for the past decade - and my retirement within the next 10 years - I'll be well taken care of.
I'm going strong with so many projects in the works - all to be completed with PowerBasic. Firefly I hadn't used for years - so I just purchased it again last week and I must say, It's Amazing! Those responsible for the lastest version - I commend you all.
I would like to see a PowerBasic 64Bit Verison. If this happen - that would change a few minds. I don't know - and looking at the site - I'm not sure if the store is open or closed. However, I did order another license of PBWin10 a few weeks ago for another programmer that works for me - and it took about a week for them to respond.
For now, 32bit is working just fine. My clients are happy that upgrades and fixes are very far in between. Most of the time - it's usually extra features is what they really want! I don't think 64Bit would make that much difference at this point in time.
I also use EZGUI (latest Version) - which is also one of my top designers. I can't thank Chris Boss enough for the help he has always given to me.
So - Head Ups - Chin High - Keep Programming - Cause someone out there needs your skills :)
Ultimately if nothing happens with PB it will be dead. For a while 32bit is OK unless you are trying to do something that requires a huge memory model it works pretty good.
I am still using PB but my direction has changed and I mostly use XOJO for Web Apps.
I am hoping that is survives because I like the syntax and it fills a need for me. At some point in the future it may not compile programs that will run on a yet to be released version of Windows.
But am less than 10 years from retirement and that raises the odds it will be OK for me.
Me too - I'll 67 in 10 years - so I hope I last that long!
Just wanted to update my last post - PB just made some announcements - Vivian made some comments - and a new update to PBWin10 to 10.04 was just recently posted.
At least I can say that ( like you ) - by the time the changes that will come take hold - I'll be retired! It was a great run - Turbo Basic, QuickBasic 4.5, Visual Basic (all), PowerBasic (all)
It was and still is a great ride!
> Just wanted to update my last post - PB just made some announcements - Vivian made some comments - and a new update to PBWin10 to 10.04 was just recently posted.
Please, read the date of the post, Mar 27th, 2013. Two years ago!
Paul:
Continuing to use FF3 which is working just fine. I would be very interested in FF for FreeBasic, let me know if and when this becomes available. You mentioned that you are working on a grid control for FreeBasic. Doe that mean that MLG cannot be used with FreeBasic or are you creating something different?
Sorry Jose - hoping it was new!